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	<title>Comments on: Decided lack of class&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://with-malice.com/2008/05/18/big-ouch/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://with-malice.com/2008/05/18/big-ouch/</link>
	<description>The NBA, and the mad ramblings of a sports-mad guy living in Japan...</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 21:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: FeetinthePaint</title>
		<link>http://with-malice.com/2008/05/18/big-ouch/#comment-11613</link>
		<dc:creator>FeetinthePaint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 13:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://withmalice.wordpress.com/?p=2168#comment-11613</guid>
		<description>I think the difference in our opinions lie on whether Horry's awareness of West's back issue matters.  

I really don't think it matters.  Strip it down, contextually, from the fact that's it the Spurs and Horry or that West had a somewhat bum back.  Does the play still lack class?  The play called for a screen on West, bad back or not.  

Even strip it down, contextually, from the game itself.  I honestly don't think the play was dirty.  And I know you concede that point -- but to me, regardless of Horry's motive, it's a smart play.

If I'm playing pick-up and someone is hedging (for lack of better term) hard on a driving teammate approaching the cup, I won't roll out or side-step to move out of the play.  Split-second and what do I do?  I make one play:  a screen to free up a creative finisher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the difference in our opinions lie on whether Horry&#8217;s awareness of West&#8217;s back issue matters.  </p>
<p>I really don&#8217;t think it matters.  Strip it down, contextually, from the fact that&#8217;s it the Spurs and Horry or that West had a somewhat bum back.  Does the play still lack class?  The play called for a screen on West, bad back or not.  </p>
<p>Even strip it down, contextually, from the game itself.  I honestly don&#8217;t think the play was dirty.  And I know you concede that point &#8212; but to me, regardless of Horry&#8217;s motive, it&#8217;s a smart play.</p>
<p>If I&#8217;m playing pick-up and someone is hedging (for lack of better term) hard on a driving teammate approaching the cup, I won&#8217;t roll out or side-step to move out of the play.  Split-second and what do I do?  I make one play:  a screen to free up a creative finisher.</p>
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		<title>By: withmalice</title>
		<link>http://with-malice.com/2008/05/18/big-ouch/#comment-11606</link>
		<dc:creator>withmalice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 04:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://withmalice.wordpress.com/?p=2168#comment-11606</guid>
		<description>No problems at all.

And that's the thing - it's not 

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;"...one play on West’s back turns Horry and Pop into Mussolini and the Black Hand."&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

it's been an ongoing state of play for the San Antonio Spurs.
As you state yourself: for better or for worse, the Spurs, and Robert Horry have a reputation for this.  
And you just have to ask yourself: &lt;em&gt;why is this so?&lt;/em&gt;
During the ill-fated Suns series last season, if Ginobli &#38; Bowen had been suspended (deservedly so) early in the series, the oh-so-dirty-hit on Nash doesn't occur at all.
Bowen's been blurring the line between fair-play and downright malicious for a good many seasons now... San Antonio's reputation has been 'silver &#38; black' for just as long.
Do you really, really, truly believe that Horry had no idea who it was, and no idea what the end result might be?  C'mon... who are you foolin'?  Of&lt;em&gt; course&lt;/em&gt; he's aware - on both counts.

I'd also suggest that without the hard-edged, walk-the-line brand of basketball that San Antonio now plays, they don't compete at any where near the level that the other top teams in the West are playing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No problems at all.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s the thing - it&#8217;s not </p>
<blockquote><p><em>&#8220;&#8230;one play on West’s back turns Horry and Pop into Mussolini and the Black Hand.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote>
<p>it&#8217;s been an ongoing state of play for the San Antonio Spurs.<br />
As you state yourself: for better or for worse, the Spurs, and Robert Horry have a reputation for this.<br />
And you just have to ask yourself: <em>why is this so?</em><br />
During the ill-fated Suns series last season, if Ginobli &amp; Bowen had been suspended (deservedly so) early in the series, the oh-so-dirty-hit on Nash doesn&#8217;t occur at all.<br />
Bowen&#8217;s been blurring the line between fair-play and downright malicious for a good many seasons now&#8230; San Antonio&#8217;s reputation has been &#8217;silver &amp; black&#8217; for just as long.<br />
Do you really, really, truly believe that Horry had no idea who it was, and no idea what the end result might be?  C&#8217;mon&#8230; who are you foolin&#8217;?  Of<em> course</em> he&#8217;s aware - on both counts.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d also suggest that without the hard-edged, walk-the-line brand of basketball that San Antonio now plays, they don&#8217;t compete at any where near the level that the other top teams in the West are playing.</p>
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		<title>By: FeetinthePaint</title>
		<link>http://with-malice.com/2008/05/18/big-ouch/#comment-11603</link>
		<dc:creator>FeetinthePaint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 03:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://withmalice.wordpress.com/?p=2168#comment-11603</guid>
		<description>Brief, huh?  My bad, Don, but cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brief, huh?  My bad, Don, but cheers.</p>
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		<title>By: FeetinthePaint</title>
		<link>http://with-malice.com/2008/05/18/big-ouch/#comment-11602</link>
		<dc:creator>FeetinthePaint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 03:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://withmalice.wordpress.com/?p=2168#comment-11602</guid>
		<description>Let me be brief, as I don't want to drag our debate over from another blog...

Sending a message doesn't have to have a "pain" connotation.  Maybe I am being obtuse but you don't need to lay timber to "send a message."  

Secondly, I agree with sportsattitude in that preying on opposition's injuries does happen.  As I referenced elsewhere, the Hornets ran Ginobili off of screens all day during the first couple games to test his ankle.  I don't think one play on West's back turns Horry and Pop into Mussolini and the Black Hand.

Were the Spurs kneeing and elbowing West's back throughout the game?  No.  Did they maybe talk about getting physical with him?  Sure.  He went off in the game prior and he's a baller.  

Did Horry mean to cause pain?  Maybe -- but it's besides the point.  West was jumping, trying to deflect a driving Ginobili's pass.  Was Horry supposed to say "oh, Mr. West, I know your back's bothering you.  I wouldn't want to muddy my reputation by not setting a proper screen."

It's a non-issue if this weren't the Spurs and the guy setting the screen weren't Robert Horry.  And if there's obviously malicious intent in Pop's heart, why not let Matt Bonner or even Ime Udoka make the "hit."  Robert Horry?  I don't even wanna play the hearsay game but who in their right mind would allow Horry to execute a so-called dirty hit?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me be brief, as I don&#8217;t want to drag our debate over from another blog&#8230;</p>
<p>Sending a message doesn&#8217;t have to have a &#8220;pain&#8221; connotation.  Maybe I am being obtuse but you don&#8217;t need to lay timber to &#8220;send a message.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Secondly, I agree with sportsattitude in that preying on opposition&#8217;s injuries does happen.  As I referenced elsewhere, the Hornets ran Ginobili off of screens all day during the first couple games to test his ankle.  I don&#8217;t think one play on West&#8217;s back turns Horry and Pop into Mussolini and the Black Hand.</p>
<p>Were the Spurs kneeing and elbowing West&#8217;s back throughout the game?  No.  Did they maybe talk about getting physical with him?  Sure.  He went off in the game prior and he&#8217;s a baller.  </p>
<p>Did Horry mean to cause pain?  Maybe &#8212; but it&#8217;s besides the point.  West was jumping, trying to deflect a driving Ginobili&#8217;s pass.  Was Horry supposed to say &#8220;oh, Mr. West, I know your back&#8217;s bothering you.  I wouldn&#8217;t want to muddy my reputation by not setting a proper screen.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a non-issue if this weren&#8217;t the Spurs and the guy setting the screen weren&#8217;t Robert Horry.  And if there&#8217;s obviously malicious intent in Pop&#8217;s heart, why not let Matt Bonner or even Ime Udoka make the &#8220;hit.&#8221;  Robert Horry?  I don&#8217;t even wanna play the hearsay game but who in their right mind would allow Horry to execute a so-called dirty hit?</p>
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		<title>By: withmalice</title>
		<link>http://with-malice.com/2008/05/18/big-ouch/#comment-11601</link>
		<dc:creator>withmalice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 23:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://withmalice.wordpress.com/?p=2168#comment-11601</guid>
		<description>As I said, just committed two questionable acts.  And on his entire body of work, he's done a lot of damage to his own legacy as a player - in just two acts of less-than-admirable play.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I said, just committed two questionable acts.  And on his entire body of work, he&#8217;s done a lot of damage to his own legacy as a player - in just two acts of less-than-admirable play.</p>
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		<title>By: Sportsattitude</title>
		<link>http://with-malice.com/2008/05/18/big-ouch/#comment-11600</link>
		<dc:creator>Sportsattitude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 19:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://withmalice.wordpress.com/?p=2168#comment-11600</guid>
		<description>I don't think Horry can be classified as a dirty player.   This incident could probably be classified as a dirty play, but I think he's been found "more" criticized via being on the same team as Bowen more than the play itself.  Yes, it appears the intent was there to focus on a player's known "weakness" and it was mean-spirited.  But Horry's entire body of work does not lean towards being mentioned as a thug.   Hey, preying on the opposition's injuries occurs in all sports.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think Horry can be classified as a dirty player.   This incident could probably be classified as a dirty play, but I think he&#8217;s been found &#8220;more&#8221; criticized via being on the same team as Bowen more than the play itself.  Yes, it appears the intent was there to focus on a player&#8217;s known &#8220;weakness&#8221; and it was mean-spirited.  But Horry&#8217;s entire body of work does not lean towards being mentioned as a thug.   Hey, preying on the opposition&#8217;s injuries occurs in all sports.</p>
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		<title>By: FLUXLAND</title>
		<link>http://with-malice.com/2008/05/18/big-ouch/#comment-11598</link>
		<dc:creator>FLUXLAND</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 17:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://withmalice.wordpress.com/?p=2168#comment-11598</guid>
		<description>Black Ops, ha?  Where did you read that?  ;p</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Black Ops, ha?  Where did you read that?  ;p</p>
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