Great work everyone!! And a fine effort by Don putting it all together.

-- mookie
ASternWarning.com

Very nice Don!

Shaq had Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade. Duncan had Mario Elie, Stephen Jackson, and a still developing Tony Parker. Parker and Ginobili are very good players, but neither one compare to Kobe and Wade. Shaq had it easier.

Don,
Excellent job of tying everything together. Great concept, even better execution!

you have to consider that Duncan was never a stathound. Certainly his numbers would be better should he demand the ball as Shaq constantly does. Duncan is a phenomenal teamate and team leader, while i think of Shaq as a team cancer. Duncan has a few years left in the tank and may still bring another championship to S.A. I'd take Duncan over Shaq in a heartbeat. If Kobe & Duncan played together imagine the heights they'd take their team too.

There's some good commentary on here, but I think the Shaq choice is more based on "Wow" factor.

Every time Duncan has reached the finals, he’s sealed the deal. Shaq’s been there six times and only come away with four rings. The only year a Duncan-led team has been knocked out of the first round of the playoffs, is when he didn’t play due to a knee injury. O’Neal’s been ousted three times out of the round—once with Orlando in 93, once with the Heat in 05 and once with the Suns in 08.

We also have to consider the talent that O’Neal has been surrounded by. First and foremost is Kobe Bryant, who was with Shaq every step of the way in Los Angeles where Shaq won the bulk of his championships. Even if you don’t believe Kobe is better than Jordan, he’s the closest thing there is. He’s also the league’s reigning MVP.

Timmy did get to play with a former MVP as well, in David Robinson, but he never had that dynamic guard alongside him until Manu Ginobili. John Hollinger might have you believe Ginobili, at the top of his game, was Kobe-esque due to his PER, but in real time minutes and contribution, Kobe is by far the superior player. I don’t think there’s any doubt about that.

Shaq’s played with Dwayne Wade, who won, perhaps the more valuable MVP—a finals MVP—when Shaq rode Wade’s phenomenal finals series to his fourth ring. There is no question that it was Wade’s series and that he was the reason behind the Heat’s win. He was the one who got all the phantom calls. He’s the one that haunts Dirk’s nightmares.

Let’s be real, finals MVP Tony Parker averaged the most points during the 07 finals, but anyone who watched that series knows that Duncan was the best player on the floor. Nobody knew who would be named the MVP of that series, but the best player, due to his undeniable presence on defense, was Tim Duncan. The numbers speak for themselves.
Duncan: 44 percent, 18 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.2 spg, 2.7 tpg, 2.2 bpg
Parker: 56 percent, 24 ppg, 5 rpg, 3 apg, .7 spg, 3 tpg, 0 bpg

While Duncan shot worse and scored less, he did everything else better including dishing out more assists and having less turnovers.

Shaq also has played with Afernee Hardaway, who, lest we forget, was supposed to be the second coming of Magic Johnson and who was a top ten player during his peak, before injuries derailed his promising career. The next best player Duncan’s played with is a young Stephen Jackson, an oft-gimpy Sean Elliot and a defensive ace, but offensively challenged Bruce Bowen and maybe you can throw in the Little General, Avery Johnson.

Shaq’s other teammates include, Gary Payton, Karl Malone, Glenn Rice, Steve Nash (two-time MVP), freak-of-nature Amare Stoudemire, Grant Hill, Jason Richardson, Alonzo Mourning…come on.

On an interesting note, both have played with Big shot Rob Horry.

Shaq might have put up splashier numbers, but Shaq’s career is based on “what could have been” more so than what he has actually done. What could have been if he and Kobe never split ways? How many MVPs he could have won if he had not completely slacked off after his MVP season? How many MORE points he could have scored if he would have just learned how to shoot freethrows?

Duncan has lived up to his potential, continues to live up to his potential, and numberswise he might have done less than Shaq, but he’s also had a lot less to work with in a considerably smaller market.

There’s also the hate factor, despite what a good guy Duncan is, despite his professionalism, people all over the NBA hate him. Haters come out when someone is just better and always wins. Shaq’s hated more for what he says and does than for his winning ways. Duncan’s been the better teammate (how many breakups has Shaq had?), the better citizen (no restraining orders for the Big Fundamental) and the more consistent winner (4-4 in the finals).

I’d take Duncan in a heartbeat.

I've got Duncan for an important reason not covered in quite enough depth here: Supporting casts. While Timmy has been dominant through stretches without his best teammates, Shaq has only ever really delivered with absolute greats by his side. Even not counting the David Robinson year for one ring, I think it's pretty clear that Kobe/Wade > Parker/Ginobili (given that both teams were packed with solid role players at all positions.)

And let's not forget that Duncan is aging far more gracefully than Shaq. Even in his recent resurgence, O'Neal alters his team's play on every level, and usually for the worse. I think Timmy will have it in him to get up and down for quite a few more seasons, giving truly meaningful contributions to a solid squad for years to come. Would 1 more ring in San Antonio's twilight years settle this debate?

ive only one more thing 2 add...timmys a true 4...not a 5!!

the article that said shaqs team made it to the playoffs all the years he was on the team except his rookie year is a valid point. but then you have to realize that Duncans team has made it to the playoffs every single year hes been in the league, and lets not forget, every year duncan has played in the playoffs, he has never had a first round exit...shaq has had a couple

when was timmeeeeeeeeeeeey cometing with mj and karl for the mvp?

I GO WITH TIMMY JUST IMAGIN IF DUNCAN PLAY ALONG SIDE WITH KOBE THEY SHOULD HAVE WON 7 CHAMPIONSHIP. BUT DUNCAN BUMP SHAQ A COUPLE OF TIME WITH KOBE I WILL GO WITH TIM ANYDAY. WHY YOU THINK JERRY TRADE HIM ? THE BIG FUNDAMENTAL

competing

nice work Don.

to me, it has to be Duncan. Shaq won three rings with the game's best SG by his side, and couldn't win those rings until Kobe developed into a star. His other ring came with probably the games second best SG in Wade, and again, he couldn't win it until Wade had developed and was fully healthy (they failed in '05).

Duncan on the other hand has done a lot more with a lot less. In '03 Ginobili and Parker were half the players they were now and Robinson was an old man. It was all about Duncan. In 2005 Ginobili was a much better player, Parker still developing, but Duncan had no help in the big-man department and had to battle Detroit's two Wallaces. He was amazing in that series.

Only now is Duncan relying more on Parker and Ginobili, but he is still the unquestioned anchor on that team. Shaq on the other hand has not been the anchor of his team since 2004.

Shaq has been more of an imposing figure, an icon. But Duncan should go down as the greater player.

should have read all the comments more closely. completely agree with everything Dodgerblue15 said!

When all is said and done NBA historians will recognize Tim Duncan as the superior basketball player in comparison with Shquille O'Neal.

Although no one else in the history of the game has entered the NBA with the explosive physical package of the Big Aristotle ... the fact is that he has not utilized his full capacity for success throughout the arc of his pro career ... whereas the Big Fundamental has, and then some.

At his very best Hakeem Olajuwon was the next best player on the planet Earth, in the aftermath of Mr. Jordan's initial climb to the mountaintop ... followed by Kobe Bryant and then Tim Duncan.

Big words there man... but ummm... nuh-uh.
Statisticians might go with Duncan, history will remember Shaq - both literally, and figuratively - as the bigger guy.

And to apologists claiming that Duncan's not a center... O'Neal himself had the best words on that:

"I don't give a damn about the All-Star ballot. Duncans a center. Who does he mark when the Suns play the Spurs? He marks me. He's a centre."

HA! in another interview shaq says tim was a POWER FORWARD and he his the BEST CENTER, he talks at his own convenience..

tim duncan in a heartbeat.

Tim Duncan at his peak vs Shaq in his? It's not even close.
Who's your daddy?

Tim, Shaq is.

Tim Duncan. Shaq has always been more dominant around the rim but Tim is a big body too. Tim better by a feather due to his all around play.

Shaq is far way better

while shaq has blocked more shots, is there any doubt duncan was the better defender? numerous first team all defense.
does anyone remember how shaq's teams have historically been killed by the high pick and roll as shaq would not or could not get out to the screen.
in the context of team impact, how many times was a duncan team swept in a series where he played? given the quality of his team mates, i do not recall any when duncan was not injured. shaq on the other hand despite superior team mates has been swept 4-0 at least three times, at least once in the NBA finals.
that has always tainted the oneal reputation to me. i could not see jordan ever allowing his own team to be swept and Duncan, while quiet, has proven to have the same level of competive fire without all the histronics.

although iam LA fan , i got to say Timmy is a better player . his spurs have been consistent over past 10 years . thanx to timmy

Sheesh... that's not what it's about: not about consistency, not about career...
WHO was the BEST big guy?
Timmy's good, but put them both at their peak, and he's in trouble. Shaq'd fold him into a pretzel (and could probably eat 'im!).

There's no comparision here. Shaq can dunk & Duncan can play basketball.

Wow... you got me there drewgt. Yeah, Shaq needs the skill-set of a PG.
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C'mon man, didja even WATCH them in their prime?

Can you tell me one thing Shaq can do other than dunk? There's no doubt that hes a force in the lane, which should come easy considering his size. You take him out of the lane and he's worthless.

As I alluded to drewgt - the position doesn't require him to be good outside the lane.
Simply put, within that differently coloured part of the basketball, Shaq reigned supreme. There are maybe 2 other big men in the history of the game who impacted that small area the way O'Neal did.
And that's the name of the game.

Thanks for coming back tho' (please do so again!)!

for being the biggest, baddest b-baller on the planet, shaq sure whines and cries a lot. if he's not getting his way or if things aren't going his way he's the biggest, baddest whiner in nba history. you never saw MJ or Duncan cry the way shaq does. in every sport and even every profession, skill has to be coupled with character otherwise it doesn't count for much.. Tim might be quiet, but he has a strong character. shaq,on the other hand, is just a character. comparing Tim and shaq is like comparing Ali and Frazier. Ones boxer the other is a bruiser. Tim has a basketball mind, shaq has a basketball head. with shaq, there's not much goin' on behind those narrow beady eyes. Needless to say, I’d take Duncan over shaq any day.

I think one point that all of you fail to realize is that Shaq played his natural position and Duncan never did. In college he played center...and came into the NBA with an awesome opportunity to play the power forward...however when Robinson retired...he never moved...instead he opted to take the low road and hide himself and play power forward never matching up against the centers of his era.

Hakeem Olajuwon had the same great opportunity...he came in to the NBA beside Ralph Sampson...but once sampson retired he moved to center.

You cannot say that Duncan was too small...because Camby, Mourning, and even Brad Miller played the center position. The overall comparison which is never looked at...is heart...I cannot say that Duncan has heart...especially when you rather play a guy name Malik Rose at center to keep from playing it yiourself...it is a sad shame the Spurs have signed centers not for their skills...but just to foul Shaq...but we credit Duncan for being an excellent defensive player.


Duncan vs. Shaq

It's no contest....SHAQ hands down....

A bit late to the party SG!
But that said, I agree whole-heartedly with your end statement!

And thanks for commenting!

Don

Are you kidding? Duncan played the tougher position by staying at PF. The PF positions was the deepest position in the NBA during Duncan's era. He faced guys like Garnett, Malone, Dirk, Stodamire, Gasol, and more. The center postition was extremely weak. However, when the Spurs faced a team with a dominant center, Duncan, more often than not, guarded the center.